1. How do you describe yourself: a) spiritual, but not religious; b) religious, but not spiritual; or c) religious and spiritual?You are welcome to answer these questions whether you are reading the book or not. It could even be interesting if you answered them before you read this chapter and after you have the author's viewpoint. Or pick any one to answer that interests you, and discuss it to your heart's content.
2. What do you think of when you hear the word “tradition”?
3. How would a congregation that emphasizes practice differ from one that emphasizes purity?
4. Do you think that faith is about asking questions or finding answers?
(The blue image above is borrowed from The Village Church in Dallas, TX.)
18 comments:
1. How do you describe yourself: a) spiritual, but not religious; b) religious, but not spiritual; or c) religious and spiritual?
I am definitely spiritual, but not religious (defined as an "institution"). I need a community, but the church as I've known it just hasn't been what I hoped for.
2. What do you think of when you hear the word “tradition”?
I think of Tradition (with a capital "T") as the stultifying rule-following of the Roman Catholic Church and later the Protestant churches from the time of Constantine until today. Though my Methodist heritage includes the Book of Discipline with its rules, my mother taught me that it's all about love — and in that I was fortunate: God is love, "Jesus loves me, this I know," and even the "be nice" that she taught us as children. And I always knew I was loved by both of my parents. I think that's why I'm open to the difference between tradition and traditionalism as our author explained it (p. 47):
"Like the people at Cornerstone, all the mainline Protestants I met were busily reclaiming tradition. However, they understood tradition as a fluid, dynamic, and critical process, making a distinction between the life-giving 'Great Tradition' that religion scholar Huston Smith refers to as 'the voice of peace, justice, and beauty that emanates from the Christian soul,' and authoritarian, exclusive traditionalism as practiced by some contemporary American Protestants."
3. How would a congregation that emphasizes practice differ from one that emphasizes purity?
A church that emphasizes purity is a church of rules, while a church that practices what it preaches is one where the people "do unto others" by meeting needs that arise. The practicing church thinks of others, while the purity folks are thinking of themselves and how good they are (or aren't).
4. Do you think that faith is about asking questions or finding answers?
All of life, in my opinion, is about growing. To grow, we must ask questions – and more questions. Life doesn't stand still, so the questions continue and the earlier answers can't answer later questions. When I have moved to a new place in my understanding, my perspective changes and the old answers need to be questioned and clarified.
I am going to answer before I read the chapter then see how my answers change after I read the chapter.
1. How do you describe yourself: a) spiritual, but not religious; b) religious, but not spiritual; or c) religious and spiritual?
If I were in a church community I would be religious and spiritual because I like all the liturgical fol-de-rol and ceremony that goes along with my religion. I like processions and stained-glass and set prayers and robes! I don't like being told what to think or how to act or being 'more holy than thou' which seems to go along with religion!
2. What do you think of when you hear the word “tradition”? I immediately think "Southern Baptist Convention rather than 'foot-washing Baptists; Presbyterianism rather than NeoCalvinists, Anglican rather than Little Church by the Stream Episcopal.
3. How would a congregation that emphasizes practice differ from one that emphasizes purity? My son's Presbyterian Church - Central Presbyterian in Austin, TX is a church that 'practices' Christianity. Their motto -"Deliberately Diverse and Fully Inclusive" says what they are all about. http://www.cpcaustin.org/
4. Do you think that faith is about asking questions or finding answers?
Right now for me my faith is about asking questions.
Zorro, I really like what I found on that church's website about being "deliberately diverse and fully inclusive," which is also part of their mission statement: "Deliberately diverse and fully inclusive ... where each person is welcomed as a unique child of God." And their vision statement says they do it by "respond[ing] to God's love, grace and justice."
What they do sounds exciting, rather than done as a dreary duty. Wondering if that church was one of the ones Diana Butler Bass included in this study, I checked the list of ten churches I found (even before reading Part II of the book) on the charts on pages 309 and 311 at the back of the book.
I thought that Central Presbyterian in Austin, Texas might be just what you are looking for in a church, based on what you have said!
My son, Chris posts (on facebook) something exciting that is going on there several times a week. I will bring some of his posts over here.
From Chris Kennedy on Facebook:
Yesterday near Austin, TX
Just did one of my favorite things to do when feeling a bit burdened: I walked over to 8th and Brazos just as the refugee ESL program was letting out for lunch. Seeing the faces and languages of people from southeast Asia, the Middle East, Latin America, and Africa makes me smile every time. Just another reason why I love our country, and why I love my church. (And I got to see four of my favorite people: Win, Rick, Greg, and Brandon).
Chris Kennedy shared Central Presbyterian Church Austin's photo.
September 30
This was a great moment - just what church is supposed to be about! 90 years, two continents, a pastor's blessed vocation. I was blessed to be there...
Our oldest member (baptized about 90 years ago) greets our newest member (baptized today at 4 weeks). Praise God!!
Chris Kennedy shared Central Presbyterian Church Austin's photo.
September 28
I think this is an awesome: my friends Chantal and Ibrahim became citizens this week, and one of the first things they are doing is registering voters. THAT is the type of thing that makes this country great! Thanks Chantal and Ibrahim!
Join CPC's two newest U.S. Citizens in registering to vote the next two Sundays. Chantal and Ibrahim Mbaya will be staffing a table in the fellowship hall where you can register to vote if you have not yet done so. Make sure to stop by and congratulate them as well!!!!
It appears that my answers before reading are pretty much in line with what I think now since I have read this chapter. I like the following quote:
"The pilgrims I met taught me that tradition, practice, and wisdom compose the Christian way of life, the shape of vital spiritual community, giving form to the longings for home. Tradition connects Christians to the past, practice is the calling in the present, and wisdom pushes toward a future of eternal love. The church engages tradition through remembering in preaching, teaching, and sacraments; it engages practice by doing a Christian way of life; and it engages wisdom through a life of knowing God. Together, tradition, practice, and wisdom are the architecture of the new village church, the one embarked on the Christian pilgrimage: a trajectory of the soul's direction in God."
1. I am spiritual and religious. I am very fortunate to be based in the Disciples' traditions of "unity" and "no creed but Christ." I've had to overcome very little dogma and traditionalism, so I have been "allowed" to grow in my faith individually with the faith community.
2. I think of the elements of my denomination: weekly sharing of the Lord's Supper, where all are welcomed to Jesus' Table; the importance of laity ministries and leadership, especially in worship; informed baptism; and not dividing creeds.
3. A practicing congregation "does" Jesus, while a pure congregation "talks" Jesus. A practicing congregation follows Jesus' way, while a pure congregation follows others' beliefs or rules about Jesus.
4. Growing faith is based on asking questions and engaging in deep discussions with others. Stagnant faith is based on answers found that are compatible with upbringing and others in your select community.
I liked Zorro's approach of answering the questions before reading the chapter and then reviewing them afterwards. I read the questions before reading the chapter and realized it would be better to answer them after reading the chapter.
1. How do you describe yourself: a) spiritual, but not religious; b) religious, but not spiritual; or c) religious and spiritual?
Both before and after reading the chapter, I am uncertain which answer would most clearly reflect where I am as I'm probably a slacker in both aspects. The chapter did help clarify the meaning of the terms. I am more spiritual than religious, but not completely non-religious.
2. What do you think of when you hear the word “tradition”?
The song from Fiddler on the Roof first came to my mind. I think that traditions can enrich one's life through the security that they can give, but one must be careful to adapt or drop traditions as one's life changes. I liked Bass's discussion on page 47: "None of the churches treated tradition as a museum piece to be guarded; rather, they understood it as the clay of Christian experience--material that successive generations of believers must craft with fruitful care."
3. How would a congregation that emphasizes practice differ from one that emphasizes purity?
Bonnie's and Aunty Don's response summarized this so well I can't think of anything to add to it. Zorro's son's church sounds like a wonderful example of a practicing church.
4. Do you think that faith is about asking questions or finding answers?
I think that faith is core beliefs which should also include questioning to help believers find answers while realizing that for many things the answers change.
Shirley, in the seminar Donna (AuntyDon) and I attended in mid-September, Diana Butler Bass asked the question a bit more broadly (in four parts):
"Are you religious, or spiritual, or both, or neither?"
Religious, for many, was more what we used to call "organized religion" or the institution. Spiritual was closer to what an individual felt in an actual encounter with God.
That is neat that you and Donna attended the seminar and got to hear Bass speak in person.
In reading the clarification of the difference between religious and spiritual, it reminded me of a recent discussion with my sister-in-law in which she told about the way her sister's "religious" husband left her after 20+ years of marriage for a younger woman. In thinking about it, the use of the term "religious" often does have negative connotations. I guess neither term (religious or spiritual) speaks to the morals of a person.
I think that perhaps I think of 'denomination' when I am trying to answer this first question. I should instead be thinking of Christianity for my religion and this is clearly my religion and then I am clearly religious, though questioning and seeking.
http://sojo.net/blogs/2012/10/15/nones-skeptics-are-new-religious
"In my experience, most skeptics today are not dogmatic atheists or jaded cynics, though some are. Most are seekers. They include Caltech geeks but also a large swath of Americans who -- looking at our improved scientific understanding, changing social norms and increasingly pluralistic religious culture -- have decided that many rigid doctrines of the past are just no longer credible."
How do you describe yourself: a) spiritual, but not religious; b) religious, but not spiritual; or c) religious and spiritual?
I definitely consider myself both religious and spiritual.
What do you think of when you hear the word "tradition"?
Like Shirley, the first thing that came into my mind was the song from Fiddler on the Roof. To me, traditions are a foundation or a touchstone, a place to begin and a place to return to for a sense of belonging or security. From there one can explore new meanings and make new connections. I think that applies to family holiday traditions as well as to religious or church traditions.
1. How do you describe yourself: a) spiritual, but not religious; b) religious, but not spiritual; or c) religious and spiritual?
I think of myself as spiritual, but not religious. I do have a relationship with the Holy Spirit, which I believe sends messages to us, gives us feelings of right and wrong.
2. What do you think of when you hear the word “tradition”?
People who get up on Sunday morning, go to church, for a better understanding of themselves and enlightens them into a practice of religious core values, those are the people I admire.
3. How would a congregation that emphasizes practice differ from one that emphasizes purity?
Have no answer for this statement now.
4. Do you think that faith is about asking questions or finding answers?
Let me say I have seen faith at work. A peace comes over you when faith enterers your heart, not only is the room of a dying person serene but the death is peaceful
Do you think that faith is about asking questions or finding answers?
This is a profound question, I think. As I've contemplated it, I've decided that the short answer is "both."
According to John 17:3, eternal life is the result of coming to know God - and yet it is vital to understand that we do not comprehend everything God comprehends. Lacking wisdom, we ask God (see James 1:5) - and He/She gives us answers. But the more we learn, the more we realize the less we know - so we continue asking questions and finding answers and asking more questions.
Alison, I love the "He/She" part of your answer!
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