FB ~ final quote and book question

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

Catalina Trail at Butterfly Family Fun Day at the Bullock Museum. She was featured on the cover of the August 1976 National Geographic after the discovery of the monarch butterflies migration retreat in Mexico.  She said, "I am the only living member of the team who discovered the Monarch Butterfly overwintering sanctuaries in Mexico in 1975."

Mary says, "I can't find the source of this quote":

"The novel is structured in a way that makes the reader realize that all the things we do without considering the future have grave consequences — from the personal (smoking, sex) to the global (climate change).    We may realize it's human nature to make a mistake and stay the course in much smaller ways (such as Dellarobia's unplanned pregnancy and unhappy marriage).

"This theme makes the flood at the end a very fitting way to end the novel. It's easy to see how we've failed to correct our path towards climate change when all the small changes Dellarobia made in her life won't matter unless we make the most important changes with respect to the environment."

In a comment (below), she asks, "What do you all think about the book as a whole?"

FB ~ themes

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

Flight Behavior interweaves important themes:  religion and science, poverty and wealth, education and instinct or faith, intolerance and acceptance.   How are these themes used to complement each other, and how do they conflict?

FB ~ stereotypes, social issues, the media

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

For Dellarobia...

"Nobody truly decided for themselves, there was too much information.  What they actually did was scope around, decide who was looking out for their clan, and sign on for the memos on a wide array of topics."

Do you agree that this is a fair assessment of a divided America?  How can we get beyond our judgments and stereotypes?

How is media both a help and a hindrance in our understanding of social issues?  How does it offer clarity and how does it add confusion?  How is the media portrayed in Flight Behavior?  What impact does it have on Dellarobia and the fate of the butterflies?  People are envious that the media pays attention to Dellarobia, yet she says being interviewed was like "having her skin peeled off."  Why are so many people consumed by a desire for fame?

FB ~ climate change, science, and religion

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

Flight Behavior illuminates the conflicting attitudes of different classes towards nature and the idea of climate change.  

How does each side see this issue?  Where do they find common ground?  Do you believe in global warming or climate change?  Explain the basis of your beliefs.  How much do you know about both the proponents and opponents in this debate?

Why do so many Americans fear or dislike science?  Why do so many others fear or dislike religion?  What impact do these attitudes have on the nation now and what do they portend for our future?

FB ~ Dellarobia's options

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

After Dellarobia's parents died, what options did she have?  She wanted to go to school — and did try — she tells Ovid,

"People who hadn't been through it would think it was that simple:  just get back on the bus, ride to the next stop.  He would have no inkling of the great slog of effort that tied up people like her in the day to day.  Or the quaking misgivings that infected every step forward, after a loss.  Even now, dread still struck her down sometimes if she found herself counting on things being fine.  Meaning her now-living children and their future, those things.  She had so much more to lose now than just herself or her own plans."

What are the factors that hold back people in Dellarobia's circumstances?  How can they be overcome?  How is each character's ideas about the future colored by his or her circumstances?

FB ~ Education

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

"Kids in Feathertown wouldn't know college-bound from a hole in the ground.  They don't need it for life around here.  College is kind of irrelevant."

Why isn't college important to these people?  Should it be?  Would you say the people of Feathertown respect education?

Why is faith and instinct enough for some people?

When she explained this to Ovid,

"His eyes went wide, as if she'd mentioned they boiled local children alive.   His shock gave her a strange satisfaction she could not have explained.  Insider status, maybe."

Explain her attitude. Yet Dellarobia also believes that "educated people had powers."  What does she mean by this?  How does education empower people?  Can it also blind them?

Monarch in San Antonio

Prepared by Mary Kennedy/Zorro

The downtown portion of the San Antonio River is a landscaped linear park with sidewalk gardens all along both sides of the banks.  The San Antonio River Authority planted and maintains the gardens.  Several years ago they planted non-native tropical milkweed, and the migrating fall monarchs found it, dropped out of the migration and now stay in San Antonio, mating all winter long.  I help monitor this population of monarch each week through-out the winter.  The above picture was taken last week as we monitored the milkweed for eggs, larvae, pupae, and adult monarchs.  Our numbers on Saturday showed 12 eggs, 4 caterpillars, no pupae and 1 adult male butterfly.   Here are graphs of our data.
http://www.mlmp.org/Results/ResultsSite.aspx?state=TX&siteID=1643

Several time in the book the author mentions the study of the O. e. parasite in monarchs.  Tomorrow a  PhD scientist from Univ. of Georgia will arrive to study the monarchs and to look for the O. e. parasite that you read about in the book.  She will sample these monarchs and then go on to the Texas Gulf Coast to study the monarchs that over-winter there.
http://monarchparasites.uga.edu/whatisOE/index.html

FB ~ clearcutting in Michoacan

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/images/graphics/mexico/Ikonos_2004_2008_Animated_Combined.gif

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/monarch/Deforest_Ikonos2004_2008_MBSF_2.html
[Dr. Lincoln Brower was an advisor to Barbara Kingsolver while she was writing this book]

Cub and his father, Bear, want to sell the patch of forest where the Monarchs are to a lumber company for clearcutting.  What ramifications would this have, not only for the butterflies but for Dellarobia's family and her town?  (What happened in Mexico after the forests were clearcut?)

Why is it often difficult for people see the long-term effects of their immediate actions?

FB ~ Ch. 4 ~ Mexico

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

Flood damage in 2010 in Angangueo, Michoacan, Mexico.

We read about the flood in Angangueo, Michoacan, in Ch. 4.   There are a number of videos on YouTube of the flood in 2010 in this small mountain village of the monarchs.   Josephina and her family lost everything in the flood and moved to Tennessee.

FB ~ Ch. 3 Congregational Space

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

Ch. 3 Congregational Space

"An enclosed walkway connected the sanctuary to the Men's Fellowship room and the sunny, tile-floored Cafe in Christ, where she could sit and have some alone time with a blueberry muffin, with other congregants who would just as soon get their sermon over closed circuit."

Have you ever attended a church like this?  Would you expect to find an elaborate church of this type in a small Tennessee mountain town?  Would you be comfortable in a church where you might be called out by the pastor as a Holy Beacon?

FB ~ first set of questions from Zorro

Prepared by Mary/Zorro

I am using the discussion questions at http://www.litlovers.com/reading-guides/13-fiction/8988-flight-behavior-kingsolver?start=3   This set of questions contains spoilers, so I am trying to pick questions that can be answered from the first chapters of the book.

In Flight Behavior we meet the East Tennessee mountain family of Dellarobia Turnbow.  What is your impression of the Turnbows so far?  Does this impression reinforce or dispute your image of the people of the mountains of East Tennessee?

[3.  Describe Dellarobia.  How is she of this mountain town in Tennessee and how is she different from it?  How are she and her family connected to the land and to nature itself?  How are they disconnected?  How does this shape their viewpoints?  How does she describe herself?  Do you agree with her self-assessment?]

As she climbs the mountain Delarobia sees the mountain "explode with light."  "The forrest blazed with its own internal flame."  "The flame now appeared to lift from individual treetops in showers of orange sparks, exploding the way a pine log does in a camp fire when it is poked.  The sparks spiraled upward in swirls like funnel clouds."

[7.  How does Dellarobia react when she first sees the Monarchs?  What greater meaning do the butterflies hold for her?  How is she like the butterflies?  How does finding them transform her life?  Were the butterflies a miracle?]

Mary/Zorro's links about monarchs

Monarch #1

http://texasbutterflyranch.com/
www.monarchwatch.com www.mlmp.org
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/monarch/
http://www.monarchjointventure.org/
http://monarchwatch.org/bring-back-the-monarchs/
http://www.monarchparasites.org/

Monarch #2

Bonnie's question:  Which is which?

One thing I like about reading Barbara Kingsolver's novels is that I learn as I read.  For instance, I now know that one of these two butterflies is a male, and the other is a female.  Without reading anyone else's comment first, tell me which is which. 

Vichy France

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/627433/Vichy-France

The Authors Purpose

How important is it for the reader to know the author's purpose in writing a book?

How important is knowing something about the author's background and philosophy?

Do we need to know more about Irene N.'s life in order to understand her point of view?

Discussion Book 1

I am not sure whether we decided to post our comments and answers as 'comments' or as 'posts'. Anyway, I want to say that the characters are certainly a self absorbed bunch of wealthy to upper middle class snobs. Has there been any true kindness shown by any of them? Is this the 'survival' mode of just these few, or were the French people as a whole this selfish. Usually we hear of the little kindnesses that folks do for one another in a disaster. We aren't seeing much of this here.
Now for this to be a discussion, I need a response to my questions. It seems that usually at Book Buddies we post independently of one another without responding and discussion.

Were there any kindnesses shown to each other and I missed them?

8/4/08 6:33 AM
Blogger Ellen D. said...

The only kindness that comes to mind is the Pericands when they start passing out chocolate, etc...then Mrs. Pericand realizes that despite having plenty of money there is nothing to buy! Her charity dries up at that point.

There was the transport driver that went out of his way to drop the soldier at a house to die more comfortably than in a truck.

8/4/08 7:17 AM
Blogger Zorro said...

Yes, Ellen, I forgot about the chocolates...Ms. P was a 'formulaic' Catholic, wasn't she. She went through all the correct motions, but 'had not love' so she was a 'clanging cymbal' or symbol! (Ephesians)

8/4/08 7:57 AM
Blogger Bonnie Jacobs said...

MaryZorro, I love that you see her as a mere symbol/cymbal. What fun with the words!

Thanks for picking up on that vivid image of "clanging cymbal" for us. It's from the "love chapter" of First Corinthians:

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. ... If I give away all I have ... but have not love, I gain nothing." (I Cor. 13: 1, 3)

Mrs. Péricand certainly wasn't willing to give away "all that she had," was she?

BTW, I think we could have a better conversation if everybuddy would POST answers, using COMMENTS if it's a short responses. Therefore, I'll POST this, too.

8/4/08 2:16 PM

Suite Francaise DQs

She does this with a heightened understanding of human behavior and an instinctively literary mind that utilizes some techniques and methods that will be used only years after she is gone.

I wonder what these techniques and methods are...would it be the telling of the same story from so many different points of view? We read stories that are written this way so often now. Perhaps this technique was not used at the time this novel was written.

Has Némirovsky presented a fair picture? The story does portray the Parisians as selfish and only concerned with their own well being and wealth. Is this fair? Perhaps this is the way they were!

Has she written a journalistic account of the time or a story of fiction? It reads to me as a story of fiction written in a journalistic style. We recently read The Devil in White City which was a non-fiction story written in a fictional style.

How have her own personal experiences biased her writing? Is this novel a contribution to the library of wartime literature? It certainly is a strong condemnation of the self absorbed attitudes of the wealthy people of Paris.

Consider in your reading so far whether or not you consider what Irène Némirovsky has written to be a tragically classic story or if she is merely a tragic figure in her own story. I would say that this is a tragically classic historical fiction glimpse of the lives of a few self absorbed wealthy people of Paris.

Reading Group Guides Friends

Several friends from RGG book discussion forum are reading SF at this time. They said I could bring their discussion over here to post every so often as we move through the book. Would that be alright with everyone here? Or would you prefer that they come here themselves to discuss the book?

The brief wondrous life of Oscar Wao

Plot introduction
The novel chronicles not just the "brief wondrous life of Oscar Wao," an overweight Dominican boy growing up in New Jersey and obsessed with science fiction, fantasy and women, but also the curse of the "fukú" that has plagued Oscar's family for generations and the Caribbean since colonization and slavery. The middle sections of the novel center on the lives of Oscar's mother Beli and his grandfather Abelard under the dictatorship of Rafael Trujillo. Rife with footnotes, science fiction and fantasy references, and street Spanglish, the novel is also a meditation on story-telling, Dominican diaspora and identity, masculinity, and the contours of authoritarian power.

Critical reception
The book won the National Book Critics Circle Award as well as the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 2008. Time magazine's Lev Grossman named it #1 of the Top 10 Fiction Books of 2007, praising it as "a massive, heaving, sparking tragicomedy".

DWC DQ Part II

I'm struggling to make myself read this book because I really, really, really don't want to read the parts about Holmes. Therefore, these questions all relate to preparing for the World's Columbian Exposition of 1893. If somebuddy can come up with questions relating to Holmes, I invite you to do so. This would be hard for me to do since I listened to the audio book. This Holmes is the second psychopath I am reading about this month...also Cathy in East of Eden. They are 'bad seeds' aren't they. What an opportunity for Holmes....people go to the Fair and never return home, and are never heard from again. Communication from other cities would be so much more difficult then than now. He can get away from the murders without even moving around the country. I am reading another book about medical charlatans of the early 20th century, and they were usually traveling to leave their patients behind. Of course their motivation was money, not murder.

3. Did you notice the "water wars"? Because Georgia is currently engaged in what some are calling a "water war" with Tennessee (and because I live in Chattanooga, on the border between the two states), I noticed Burnham's concern about providing clean water to the fair. Georgia's problem is rapid expansion without planning ahead for the water needs of its people; Burnham's problem was sewage threatening Chicago's water supply. Read the section spanning pages 175-176 about the fight to pipe water from Waukesha, Wisconsin, to the fair in Jackson Park. What was the subtle distinction that allowed Burnham to say the water came from Waukesha? I found it very interesting that the Great Lakes were so polluted by the butchery of animals in Chicago that the water wasn't potable. "Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink"

4. A tiny (four sentence) section at the top of page 181 mentions a pledge recited by school children on Dedication Day. I'd never heard that this was how the Pledge of Allegiance began, had you? Who was Francis J. Bellamy, anyway? (You may have to google or go to Wikipedia to learn more about him. In my research, I discovered that I was two years old when the U.S. Congress recognized the Pledge as the official national pledge.) I will have to go to Wiki to find the answers. I was in the fifth grade when we started saying "under God" in the pledge. In Texas the schools are required by law to say the pledge each day (and the Texas Pledge also).

5. The original Ferris Wheel was bigger than I realized, at "a bit higher than the crown of the ... Statue of Liberty" (p. 185). I'm sure we'll read more about it in later sections of the book, but say something about the size of the thirty-six "cars" on the Ferris Wheel. Did he say 100 people per car?? Please tell me what the capacity actually was.

H.H. Holmes and the Murder Castle

June 13, 2008 - 9pm ET
John Borowski appears on
The Biography Channel program:
H.H. Holmes and the
Murder Castle.

http://www.hhholmesthefilm.com/