6. When Bruno and his family boarded the train for Auschwitz, he noticed an over-crowded train headed in the same direction. How does he later make the connection between Shmuel and that train? How are both trains symbolic of each boy’s final journey?
In his conversations with Shmuel, Bruno realizes that while they took the luxurious train Shmuel was on the over-crowded train. It is surprising that naiive Bruno does not realize that Shmuel could not have ridden on his less crowded train.
7. Bruno issues a protest about leaving Berlin. His father responds, “Do you think that I would have made such a success of my life if I hadn’t learned when to argue and when to keep my mouth shut and follow orders?” (p. 49) What question might Bruno’s father ask at the end of the novel?
Bruno's father probably wishes he would have made a better decision in terms of when to argue. Although there is some truth to success in life being determined by knowing when to argue and when to keep still, this is an example of taking this advice to the extreme in far the wrong direction. A reminder of the statement about not speaking up when the persecutions began because it was someone different and then there being no one left when the speaker was persecuted (poorly rephrased, but I hope you are familiar with this quote).
8. What does Gretel mean when she says, “Something about the way [Bruno] was watching made her feel suddenly nervous”? (p. 28) How does this statement foreshadow Bruno’s ultimate demise?
Gretel may have had intuition about the ultimate end of Bruno, but she may have also just realized that what was going on outside his bedroom window was evil even though no one talked about it or wanted to acknowledge it.
9. A pun is most often seen as humorous. But, in this novel the narrator uses dark or solemn puns like Out-With and Fury to convey certain meanings. Bruno is simply mispronouncing the real words, but the author is clearly asking the reader to consider a double meaning to these words. Discuss the use of this wordplay as a literary device. What is the narrator trying to convey to the reader? How do these words further communicate the horror of the situation?
I think that Bruno's mispronunciations hit the truth right on the head and is a meaningful play on the "correct" words. Although people tried to correct him, I think that his words did portray the truth. Since the book is written in English, the errors work well to point out the truth, I don't know German or Polish but suspect that the same errors would not work in these languages.
10. When Bruno dresses in the filthy striped pajamas, he remembers something his grandmother once said. “You wear the right outfit and you feel like the person you’re pretending to be.” (p, 205) How is this true for Bruno? What about his father? What does this statement contribute to the overall meaning of the story?
The grandmother sure hit the truth with her saying which is similar to "clothes make the man". I think that the fact that people behave and are treated based on how they dress is another support for the use of school uniforms.
As soon as Bruno put on the pajamas, he felt like a one of the prisoners and was obviously treated like one by the soldiers. His father wore the Nazi uniform and acted like one. The way a person is treated is too often based on superficial things such as clothes while ignoring the fact that the person in whatever clothes is a person with the same rights and feelings that others having different clothes or religions or wealth has.
11. Discuss the moral or message of the novel. What new insights and understandings does John Boyne want the reader to gain from reading this story?
I think Boyne was trying to help readers gain a better understanding of both the Nazis and their families as well as to the Jews. People are people no matter which side they are on.
Monday, November 26, 2007
Sunday, November 25, 2007
Anne's BSP Discussion Quesitions for Part Two
6. When Bruno and his family boarded the train for Auschwitz, he noticed an over-crowded train headed in the same direction. How does he later make the connection between Shmuel and that train? How are both trains symbolic of each boy’s final journey?
Shmuel tells Bruno the story of his awful trip to the camp on an overcrowded train with no doors. Shmuel's train ride relates to the crowded march more obviously than Bruno's empty lonely train ride away from Berlin, the only place he's ever lived. Both trains led to the middle of nowhere, a desolate, horrible place, and to the end of their lives.
7. Bruno issues a protest about leaving Berlin. His father responds, “Do you think that I would have made such a success of my life if I hadn’t learned when to argue and when to keep my mouth shut and follow orders?” (p. 49) What question might Bruno’s father ask at the end of the novel?
Perhaps "Would my son still be alive if I had listened to my wife and him or followed my own instincts and disobeyed orders?" or "Would I know what happened to my son if I had argued and not kept my mouth shut?"
8. What does Gretel mean when she says, “Something about the way [Bruno] was watching made her feel suddenly nervous”? (p. 28) How does this statement foreshadow Bruno’s ultimate demise?
Intuition and a vibe in the air from Bruno had Gretel sensing that what she would see outside the window would be bad and they shouldn't be living there. Bruno, perhaps, seemed too interested in the camp beyond the fence for his own good plus Gretel knew that Bruno was partial to exploring.
9. A pun is most often seen as humorous. But, in this novel the narrator uses dark or solemn puns like Out-With and Fury to convey certain meanings. Bruno is simply mispronouncing the real words, but the author is clearly asking the reader to consider a double meaning to these words. Discuss the use of this wordplay as a literary device. What is the narrator trying to convey to the reader? How do these words further communicate the horror of the situation?
I think I understand why the author is doing this as well as why he chooses to portray Bruno as small/young for his age. But I wonder why he didn't just make Bruno a few years younger. I had a hard time swallowing Bruno as he is. That at nine years old, he couldn't pronounce certain words (and didn't know what was going on in the world when his sister only a few years older than him did). The book showed people trying to correct his pronunciation. Instead of the author just using the other words he wanted to make his point, he gave a fairly unbelievable, to me, explanation for why he was doing it. I'd have had an easier time with the book had the author just switched the words for no reason stated in the book other than the author's prerogative.
10. When Bruno dresses in the filthy striped pajamas, he remembers something his grandmother once said. “You wear the right outfit and you feel like the person you’re pretending to be.” (p, 205) How is this true for Bruno? What about his father? What does this statement contribute to the overall meaning of the story?
Bruno feels different once he is wearing the striped pajamas and has enter the camp. The exploring is no longer exciting or fun and he wants to leave. He seems understand a little bit of how Shmuel feels every day. Bruno's father wears a uniform and the power seems to have gone to his head. He puts his aspirations for his career ahead of his love for his family and any values he may have had.
11. Discuss the moral or message of the novel. What new insights and understandings does John Boyne want the reader to gain from reading this story?
The message of the novel seems to be to point out that similar, though on a more minor scale, instances are still occurring today and there are still many things wrongly dividing people but people are ignoring this and choosing not to do anything to change things for the better.
12. Discuss the differences in a fable, an allegory, and a proverb. How might this story fit into each genre?
I looked up these literary terms to better understand the differences between them.
Fable - a short, simple story, usually with animals as characters, designed to teach a moral truth. Such a story often concludes with an epigram containing the moral.
Other than the animals as characters and being short and simple, BSP could fit this definition.
Allegory - an extended metaphor in which a person, abstract idea, or event stands for itself and for something else. It usually involves moral or spiritual concepts which are more significant than the actual narrative.
Bruno is the boy in the novel but also represents innocence among other things and the other characters are representative as well. The novel is also making a moral point. I think this is the term best suited for BSP based on these definitions.
Proverb - a short saying, usually of unknown or ancient origin, that expresses some useful thought, commonplace truth, or moral lesson and is most often expressed in simple, homely language. Sometimes, it is allegorical or symbolic. A proverb is appealing because it is succinct and uses simple rhyme, irony, metaphor, and comparison or contrast.
BSP doesn't really fit this definition of a proverb as it is not a short saying nor it is succinct. But it does express useful thoughts, truths, and a moral lesson. It also contains allegory and symbolism.
Shmuel tells Bruno the story of his awful trip to the camp on an overcrowded train with no doors. Shmuel's train ride relates to the crowded march more obviously than Bruno's empty lonely train ride away from Berlin, the only place he's ever lived. Both trains led to the middle of nowhere, a desolate, horrible place, and to the end of their lives.
7. Bruno issues a protest about leaving Berlin. His father responds, “Do you think that I would have made such a success of my life if I hadn’t learned when to argue and when to keep my mouth shut and follow orders?” (p. 49) What question might Bruno’s father ask at the end of the novel?
Perhaps "Would my son still be alive if I had listened to my wife and him or followed my own instincts and disobeyed orders?" or "Would I know what happened to my son if I had argued and not kept my mouth shut?"
8. What does Gretel mean when she says, “Something about the way [Bruno] was watching made her feel suddenly nervous”? (p. 28) How does this statement foreshadow Bruno’s ultimate demise?
Intuition and a vibe in the air from Bruno had Gretel sensing that what she would see outside the window would be bad and they shouldn't be living there. Bruno, perhaps, seemed too interested in the camp beyond the fence for his own good plus Gretel knew that Bruno was partial to exploring.
9. A pun is most often seen as humorous. But, in this novel the narrator uses dark or solemn puns like Out-With and Fury to convey certain meanings. Bruno is simply mispronouncing the real words, but the author is clearly asking the reader to consider a double meaning to these words. Discuss the use of this wordplay as a literary device. What is the narrator trying to convey to the reader? How do these words further communicate the horror of the situation?
I think I understand why the author is doing this as well as why he chooses to portray Bruno as small/young for his age. But I wonder why he didn't just make Bruno a few years younger. I had a hard time swallowing Bruno as he is. That at nine years old, he couldn't pronounce certain words (and didn't know what was going on in the world when his sister only a few years older than him did). The book showed people trying to correct his pronunciation. Instead of the author just using the other words he wanted to make his point, he gave a fairly unbelievable, to me, explanation for why he was doing it. I'd have had an easier time with the book had the author just switched the words for no reason stated in the book other than the author's prerogative.
10. When Bruno dresses in the filthy striped pajamas, he remembers something his grandmother once said. “You wear the right outfit and you feel like the person you’re pretending to be.” (p, 205) How is this true for Bruno? What about his father? What does this statement contribute to the overall meaning of the story?
Bruno feels different once he is wearing the striped pajamas and has enter the camp. The exploring is no longer exciting or fun and he wants to leave. He seems understand a little bit of how Shmuel feels every day. Bruno's father wears a uniform and the power seems to have gone to his head. He puts his aspirations for his career ahead of his love for his family and any values he may have had.
11. Discuss the moral or message of the novel. What new insights and understandings does John Boyne want the reader to gain from reading this story?
The message of the novel seems to be to point out that similar, though on a more minor scale, instances are still occurring today and there are still many things wrongly dividing people but people are ignoring this and choosing not to do anything to change things for the better.
12. Discuss the differences in a fable, an allegory, and a proverb. How might this story fit into each genre?
I looked up these literary terms to better understand the differences between them.
Fable - a short, simple story, usually with animals as characters, designed to teach a moral truth. Such a story often concludes with an epigram containing the moral.
Other than the animals as characters and being short and simple, BSP could fit this definition.
Allegory - an extended metaphor in which a person, abstract idea, or event stands for itself and for something else. It usually involves moral or spiritual concepts which are more significant than the actual narrative.
Bruno is the boy in the novel but also represents innocence among other things and the other characters are representative as well. The novel is also making a moral point. I think this is the term best suited for BSP based on these definitions.
Proverb - a short saying, usually of unknown or ancient origin, that expresses some useful thought, commonplace truth, or moral lesson and is most often expressed in simple, homely language. Sometimes, it is allegorical or symbolic. A proverb is appealing because it is succinct and uses simple rhyme, irony, metaphor, and comparison or contrast.
BSP doesn't really fit this definition of a proverb as it is not a short saying nor it is succinct. But it does express useful thoughts, truths, and a moral lesson. It also contains allegory and symbolism.
Thursday, November 22, 2007
OT
Just wanted to check in and say Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it.
Welcome all new members. I am not reading this months selection but I did buy the december book yesterday at B&N.
I look forward to reading this one with all of you.
Gerry
Welcome all new members. I am not reading this months selection but I did buy the december book yesterday at B&N.
I look forward to reading this one with all of you.
Gerry
Sunday, November 18, 2007
BSP ~ Carole's answers
6. Shmuel crowded conditions at Auschwitz was the connection Bruno made of the train. Both boys were edgy when the crowd gathered, without knowing the danger that lay ahead of them.
7. Bruno father success in life was what he believed was the proper behavior of a man in uniform, follow directions and keeps your mouth shut. I do not think he would have learned one thing from finding his son's dead body in a crowd of striped pajamas. Killing fields continue to excesses today in Darfur, with all the modern technology we still wait, watch and do nothing.
8. I think Bruno’s sister knew he was overly curious about the people on the other side of the fence. Looking without exploring was what made Gretel nervous.
9. I wish I could see a double meaning in these two words. I believe Hitler was a raging maniac who corrupted a society into believing he/they was superior. Out-with, the Jewish people, was the author’s way of creating a sick joke on what people in Germany may have viewed hard working, people who prospered and shared their wealth among themselves. Jealousy comes to mind here.
10. “You wear the right outfit and you feel like the person you’re pretending to be.” (p, 205)
How is this true for Bruno? He must feel worthless, and frightened in the pajamas. What does this statement contribute to the overall meaning of the story? Don’t we all judge people by their dress code, in school, work and even at the check out stand in Wal-mart? I wish I could say, no I do not judge people by their dress code but that would be a lie.
11. The moral of the story may be we all need to look closer at how effortless it is to sit back and do nothing.
--- Caboose
7. Bruno father success in life was what he believed was the proper behavior of a man in uniform, follow directions and keeps your mouth shut. I do not think he would have learned one thing from finding his son's dead body in a crowd of striped pajamas. Killing fields continue to excesses today in Darfur, with all the modern technology we still wait, watch and do nothing.
8. I think Bruno’s sister knew he was overly curious about the people on the other side of the fence. Looking without exploring was what made Gretel nervous.
9. I wish I could see a double meaning in these two words. I believe Hitler was a raging maniac who corrupted a society into believing he/they was superior. Out-with, the Jewish people, was the author’s way of creating a sick joke on what people in Germany may have viewed hard working, people who prospered and shared their wealth among themselves. Jealousy comes to mind here.
10. “You wear the right outfit and you feel like the person you’re pretending to be.” (p, 205)
How is this true for Bruno? He must feel worthless, and frightened in the pajamas. What does this statement contribute to the overall meaning of the story? Don’t we all judge people by their dress code, in school, work and even at the check out stand in Wal-mart? I wish I could say, no I do not judge people by their dress code but that would be a lie.
11. The moral of the story may be we all need to look closer at how effortless it is to sit back and do nothing.
--- Caboose
Some Additional Thoughts
I finished the book earlier this week and have been thinking a lot about it since. Here are a few thoughts on Bonnie's second set of discussion questions:
9. Some of the Book Buddies have seemed to dislike the use of the puns Out-With and Fury. For me, they are central to the power of the book. (I've commented about this a little already.) In understanding the puns, we recognize the setting of the book - but the use of the puns makes it possible to extrapolate the book's message not only to war settings other than Auschwitz but also - and more significant to me - to other situations in which we put up a fence and put people whom we wish to be "out with" on the other side of the fence or in which our hatred for those different from us creates furious destruction and violence (either literal or figurative). I think Boyne's use of these puns is ingenious!
7 and 10. The striped pajamas put Bruno into the "shoes" of Shmuel. One of the most profound passages from the book comes after Bruno puts on the pajamas and crawls under the fence to the other side (p. 208):
11 and 12. The Boy in the Striped Pajamas can be read as a simple young adult historical fiction novel, but I think that it is much more. My thesaurus says that fable, allegory, and parable are synonyms, each meaning "a story intended to teach a basic truth or moral about life." To me, that is what this book is. (I can understand the feeling that some Book Buddies have had that calling this story a "fable" is not appropriate, but I think that is only if we view that label as synonymous with "myth" - which is a related but different word, particularly in this context.) It is because the book is a fable that it has great power - power to make us contemplate its message, power to alter our thinking, power to stay with us for a long time.
9. Some of the Book Buddies have seemed to dislike the use of the puns Out-With and Fury. For me, they are central to the power of the book. (I've commented about this a little already.) In understanding the puns, we recognize the setting of the book - but the use of the puns makes it possible to extrapolate the book's message not only to war settings other than Auschwitz but also - and more significant to me - to other situations in which we put up a fence and put people whom we wish to be "out with" on the other side of the fence or in which our hatred for those different from us creates furious destruction and violence (either literal or figurative). I think Boyne's use of these puns is ingenious!
7 and 10. The striped pajamas put Bruno into the "shoes" of Shmuel. One of the most profound passages from the book comes after Bruno puts on the pajamas and crawls under the fence to the other side (p. 208):
'I don't think I like it here,' said Bruno after a while.Bruno's father also wears a costume - one in which he is unable to think for himself and to question the orders he receives.
'Neither do I,' said Shmuel.
11 and 12. The Boy in the Striped Pajamas can be read as a simple young adult historical fiction novel, but I think that it is much more. My thesaurus says that fable, allegory, and parable are synonyms, each meaning "a story intended to teach a basic truth or moral about life." To me, that is what this book is. (I can understand the feeling that some Book Buddies have had that calling this story a "fable" is not appropriate, but I think that is only if we view that label as synonymous with "myth" - which is a related but different word, particularly in this context.) It is because the book is a fable that it has great power - power to make us contemplate its message, power to alter our thinking, power to stay with us for a long time.
Saturday, November 17, 2007
Caboose ~ on BSP
Sometimes when I am really into reading a book I can sail along and dream, guess that may be part of my problem. I get too involved in the characters…LOL…
BSP is a good example of putting me into the mix of characters. Perhaps that is why I was sad, down right disgusted with Bruno's father. I can not read a book without drawing my emotions into play.
Could I have some feedback on how other buddies feel when they read a book?
--- Caboose
BSP is a good example of putting me into the mix of characters. Perhaps that is why I was sad, down right disgusted with Bruno's father. I can not read a book without drawing my emotions into play.
Could I have some feedback on how other buddies feel when they read a book?
--- Caboose
Anne's BSP Discussion Quesitions for Part One
1. Discuss the relationship between Bruno and Gretel. Why does Bruno seem younger than nine? In a traditional fable, characters are usually one-sided. How might Bruno and Gretel be considered one-dimensional?
It seems like a typical, if simplified, sibling relationship at those ages. At first, I thought Bruno seemed older than nine but then I realized he was just parroting things he'd heard adults say without really understanding what they meant. He also doesn't seem to know much about what's going on around him. So far, Gretel exists only as Bruno sees her. As he thinks she is a "Hopeless Case," we doesn't hear a lot about her because he doesn't seem to think about her much unless she's present. Bruno is less one-dimensional as he is the narrator but he repeats himself a lot and seems confused often (this might have more to do with what his parents actually tell him or choose to shield him from). We might see growth of his character in the second part.
2. At age 12, Gretel is the proper age for membership in the League of Young Girls, a branch of Hitler’s Youth Organization. Why do you think she is not a member, especially since her father is a high-ranking officer in Hitler's army?
I would speculated it's because either her mother has opposing views from her father and doesn't want her to be or her father knows what is entailed and doesn't want his daughter to take part.
3. What is it about the house at Out-With that makes Bruno feel “cold and unsafe”? How is this feeling perpetuated as he encounters people like Pavel, Maria, Lt. Kotler, and Shmuel?
The house at Out-With is different from Bruno's old house like Out-With is different from Berlin. Berlin is a bustling city which Bruno knows and understands his corner of. Out-With is in the middle of nowhere and Bruno can't make sense of what is happening behind the fence, where he is, or how he got there. The house at Out-With is smaller and plainer while the house in Berlin was larger and nicer with more places to explore.
The people/situations Bruno encounters at Out-With are also different from at home in Berlin. He doesn't yet know how to make sense of them. Pavel is a doctor who doesn't work as a doctor but as a servant. Maria has had a conversation with him unlike any they have had before. While soldiers visited the house in Berlin, they did not seem to be present as much as Lt. Kotler nor did Bruno seem to find them as distasteful. Bruno seems delighted to find a boy his own age and possibly a friend in Shmuel but he is very different from him and seems to know more than him.
4. Describe Bruno's reaction when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas. Bruno asks his father about the people outside their house at Auschwitz. His father answers, “They’re not people at all Bruno.” (p. 53) Discuss the horror of this attitude. How does his father’s statement make Bruno more curious about Out-With?
Bruno makes an O with his mouth and opens his eyes wide like he does when he is surprised but doesn't stretch his arms out because he feels "very cold and unsafe." (pg 20) He shows Gretel what is outside his window shortly after and the children try to figure out where they are.
Bruno doesn't understand what his father means by the statement and is unsatisfied with his explanation. To Bruno, another person has to be a person. "And were they really so different?" "What exactly was the difference? ... And who decided which people wore the striped pajamas and which people wore the uniforms?" "It was as if it were another city entirely..." (pg 100)
5. Explain what Bruno’s mother means when she says, “We don’t have the luxury of thinking.” (p. 13) Identify scenes from the novel that Bruno’s mother isn’t happy about their life at Out-With. Debate whether she is unhappy being away from Berlin, or whether she is angry about her husband’s position. How does Bruno’s grandmother react to her son’s military role?
Bruno's mother means that the children and she don't have a choice in the matter. They have to do what they are told. She refers to Bruno's father as "some people" when she disagrees with something he has say or done. She also left Out-With at one point to visit a near by town. I think she is both unhappy being away from Berlin, her home and possibly the only place she's even lived, and angry about her husband's position, her Mother at least has opposing views so she might as well. Bruno's grandmother clearly disagrees with how her son chooses to live his life and has no trouble voicing how she feels to him.
It seems like a typical, if simplified, sibling relationship at those ages. At first, I thought Bruno seemed older than nine but then I realized he was just parroting things he'd heard adults say without really understanding what they meant. He also doesn't seem to know much about what's going on around him. So far, Gretel exists only as Bruno sees her. As he thinks she is a "Hopeless Case," we doesn't hear a lot about her because he doesn't seem to think about her much unless she's present. Bruno is less one-dimensional as he is the narrator but he repeats himself a lot and seems confused often (this might have more to do with what his parents actually tell him or choose to shield him from). We might see growth of his character in the second part.
2. At age 12, Gretel is the proper age for membership in the League of Young Girls, a branch of Hitler’s Youth Organization. Why do you think she is not a member, especially since her father is a high-ranking officer in Hitler's army?
I would speculated it's because either her mother has opposing views from her father and doesn't want her to be or her father knows what is entailed and doesn't want his daughter to take part.
3. What is it about the house at Out-With that makes Bruno feel “cold and unsafe”? How is this feeling perpetuated as he encounters people like Pavel, Maria, Lt. Kotler, and Shmuel?
The house at Out-With is different from Bruno's old house like Out-With is different from Berlin. Berlin is a bustling city which Bruno knows and understands his corner of. Out-With is in the middle of nowhere and Bruno can't make sense of what is happening behind the fence, where he is, or how he got there. The house at Out-With is smaller and plainer while the house in Berlin was larger and nicer with more places to explore.
The people/situations Bruno encounters at Out-With are also different from at home in Berlin. He doesn't yet know how to make sense of them. Pavel is a doctor who doesn't work as a doctor but as a servant. Maria has had a conversation with him unlike any they have had before. While soldiers visited the house in Berlin, they did not seem to be present as much as Lt. Kotler nor did Bruno seem to find them as distasteful. Bruno seems delighted to find a boy his own age and possibly a friend in Shmuel but he is very different from him and seems to know more than him.
4. Describe Bruno's reaction when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas. Bruno asks his father about the people outside their house at Auschwitz. His father answers, “They’re not people at all Bruno.” (p. 53) Discuss the horror of this attitude. How does his father’s statement make Bruno more curious about Out-With?
Bruno makes an O with his mouth and opens his eyes wide like he does when he is surprised but doesn't stretch his arms out because he feels "very cold and unsafe." (pg 20) He shows Gretel what is outside his window shortly after and the children try to figure out where they are.
Bruno doesn't understand what his father means by the statement and is unsatisfied with his explanation. To Bruno, another person has to be a person. "And were they really so different?" "What exactly was the difference? ... And who decided which people wore the striped pajamas and which people wore the uniforms?" "It was as if it were another city entirely..." (pg 100)
5. Explain what Bruno’s mother means when she says, “We don’t have the luxury of thinking.” (p. 13) Identify scenes from the novel that Bruno’s mother isn’t happy about their life at Out-With. Debate whether she is unhappy being away from Berlin, or whether she is angry about her husband’s position. How does Bruno’s grandmother react to her son’s military role?
Bruno's mother means that the children and she don't have a choice in the matter. They have to do what they are told. She refers to Bruno's father as "some people" when she disagrees with something he has say or done. She also left Out-With at one point to visit a near by town. I think she is both unhappy being away from Berlin, her home and possibly the only place she's even lived, and angry about her husband's position, her Mother at least has opposing views so she might as well. Bruno's grandmother clearly disagrees with how her son chooses to live his life and has no trouble voicing how she feels to him.
Friday, November 16, 2007
OT ~ Invitation
Hi Everyone! I want to thank Bonnie for the invitation to Book Buddies! Sorry it took so long to reply but I had computer problems and totally forgot about the invite until Oprah's new book announcement the other day. I went to her site and couldn't believe what a state it was in. It makes me sad. So I decided to respond to the invite and come here and see all of you instead!
Happy to be here. I will come back later tonight and tinker a bit and read some of the older posts to get a feel for things. I was happy to see a lot of names from the old Book Buddies, like Granita! It's been a long time.
Candy
Happy to be here. I will come back later tonight and tinker a bit and read some of the older posts to get a feel for things. I was happy to see a lot of names from the old Book Buddies, like Granita! It's been a long time.
Candy
BSP
I enjoyed the book, but would have liked it better if he had left off the 'fable' ideas. I thought Bruno should have been able to pronounce the words correctly. He had been taught how to correctly say & perform the salute to hitler, why not his title & where they lived? The Jewish boy could pronounce everything correctly, and they were the exact same age. Bruno could even pronounce Shmuel, which would have been hard for him. Also, the idea of taking the horrors of the holocaust & making a 'fable' out of it was disrespectful. There are enough doubters already.
BSP-DQ, part 2
6. When Bruno and his family boarded the train for Auschwitz, he noticed an over-crowded train headed in the same direction. How does he later make the connection between Shmuel and that train? How are both trains symbolic of each boy’s final journey?
7. Bruno issues a protest about leaving Berlin. His father responds, “Do you think that I would have made such a success of my life if I hadn’t learned when to argue and when to keep my mouth shut and follow orders?” (p. 49) What question might Bruno’s father ask at the end of the novel?
8. What does Gretel mean when she says, “Something about the way [Bruno] was watching made her feel suddenly nervous”? (p. 28) How does this statement foreshadow Bruno’s ultimate demise?
9. A pun is most often seen as humorous. But, in this novel the narrator uses dark or solemn puns like Out-With and Fury to convey certain meanings. Bruno is simply mispronouncing the real words, but the author is clearly asking the reader to consider a double meaning to these words. Discuss the use of this wordplay as a literary device. What is the narrator trying to convey to the reader? How do these words further communicate the horror of the situation?
10. When Bruno dresses in the filthy striped pajamas, he remembers something his grandmother once said. “You wear the right outfit and you feel like the person you’re pretending to be.” (p, 205) How is this true for Bruno? What about his father? What does this statement contribute to the overall meaning of the story?
11. Discuss the moral or message of the novel. What new insights and understandings does John Boyne want the reader to gain from reading this story?
12. Discuss the differences in a fable, an allegory, and a proverb. How might this story fit into each genre?
7. Bruno issues a protest about leaving Berlin. His father responds, “Do you think that I would have made such a success of my life if I hadn’t learned when to argue and when to keep my mouth shut and follow orders?” (p. 49) What question might Bruno’s father ask at the end of the novel?
8. What does Gretel mean when she says, “Something about the way [Bruno] was watching made her feel suddenly nervous”? (p. 28) How does this statement foreshadow Bruno’s ultimate demise?
9. A pun is most often seen as humorous. But, in this novel the narrator uses dark or solemn puns like Out-With and Fury to convey certain meanings. Bruno is simply mispronouncing the real words, but the author is clearly asking the reader to consider a double meaning to these words. Discuss the use of this wordplay as a literary device. What is the narrator trying to convey to the reader? How do these words further communicate the horror of the situation?
10. When Bruno dresses in the filthy striped pajamas, he remembers something his grandmother once said. “You wear the right outfit and you feel like the person you’re pretending to be.” (p, 205) How is this true for Bruno? What about his father? What does this statement contribute to the overall meaning of the story?
11. Discuss the moral or message of the novel. What new insights and understandings does John Boyne want the reader to gain from reading this story?
12. Discuss the differences in a fable, an allegory, and a proverb. How might this story fit into each genre?
Up to Chapter 10
1. Discuss the relationship between Bruno and Gretel. Why does Bruno seem younger than nine? In a traditional fable, characters are usually one-sided. How might Bruno and Gretel be considered one-dimensional?
Considering that they are so isolated, it is surprising that Bruno and Gretel don't go ahead and become friends.
Bruno seems younger than nine because he seems so innocent. He has such a sweet and pure look at life in spite of all of the things that are going on around him. He still looks at things as black and white rather than seeing the grey.
2. At age 12, Gretel is the proper age for membership in the League of Young Girls, a branch of Hitler’s Youth Organization. Why do you think she is not a member, especially since her father is a high-ranking officer in Hitler's army?
Once they moved to the camp, I thought they were too isolated from others to have anyone for Gretel to be a member of anything. I don't know why she wasn't a member while in Berlin.
3. What is it about the house at Out-With that makes Bruno feel “cold and unsafe”? How is this feeling perpetuated as he encounters people like Pavel, Maria, Lt. Kotler, and Shmuel?
I think that having the house swarming with military personnel combined with the camp's purpose permeates the house leaving it cold and unsafe.
The mystery of who Pavel is (why a doctor is acting like a cook and waiter) and how he is treated adds to the coldness of the house. Maria's loyalty to Bruno's dad yet her occasional openness with Bruno is another mystery. Lt. Kotler's rudeness to Pavel and the creepy relationship that one can feel between Gretel and him adds to the coldness of the house. Shmuel opens up many more questions for Bruno as he tries to figure out what is going on with the people in the striped pajamas.
4. Describe Bruno's reaction when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas. Bruno asks his father about the people outside their house at Auschwitz. His father answers, “They’re not people at all Bruno.” (p. 53) Discuss the horror of this attitude. How does his father’s statement make Bruno more curious about Out-With?
In his innocence, Bruno is puzzled and quite empathetic when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas.
The attitude of making any group of people non-people allows the acceptance of mistreatment of them.
His father's response makes Bruno more curious about them because of the contradiction of considering any group of people as not being people.
5. Explain what Bruno’s mother means when she says, “We don’t have the luxury of thinking.” (p. 13) Identify scenes from the novel that Bruno’s mother isn’t happy about their life at Out-With. Debate whether she is unhappy being away from Berlin, or whether she is angry about her husband’s position. How does Bruno’s grandmother react to her son’s military role?
In order to co-exist with those living in a military dictatorship one has to do as told without questions. Thinking implies the ability to question which is not allowable.
I think Bruno's mother accepts the military role of her husband and enjoys the higher status that his promotion has given him.
I love that Bruno's grandmother rejects her son's military role and is able to see it for what it is rather than becoming proud of his leadership role.
I thought that the use of capital letters for phrases was interesting. It reminded me of Winnie the Pooh books.
Considering that they are so isolated, it is surprising that Bruno and Gretel don't go ahead and become friends.
Bruno seems younger than nine because he seems so innocent. He has such a sweet and pure look at life in spite of all of the things that are going on around him. He still looks at things as black and white rather than seeing the grey.
2. At age 12, Gretel is the proper age for membership in the League of Young Girls, a branch of Hitler’s Youth Organization. Why do you think she is not a member, especially since her father is a high-ranking officer in Hitler's army?
Once they moved to the camp, I thought they were too isolated from others to have anyone for Gretel to be a member of anything. I don't know why she wasn't a member while in Berlin.
3. What is it about the house at Out-With that makes Bruno feel “cold and unsafe”? How is this feeling perpetuated as he encounters people like Pavel, Maria, Lt. Kotler, and Shmuel?
I think that having the house swarming with military personnel combined with the camp's purpose permeates the house leaving it cold and unsafe.
The mystery of who Pavel is (why a doctor is acting like a cook and waiter) and how he is treated adds to the coldness of the house. Maria's loyalty to Bruno's dad yet her occasional openness with Bruno is another mystery. Lt. Kotler's rudeness to Pavel and the creepy relationship that one can feel between Gretel and him adds to the coldness of the house. Shmuel opens up many more questions for Bruno as he tries to figure out what is going on with the people in the striped pajamas.
4. Describe Bruno's reaction when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas. Bruno asks his father about the people outside their house at Auschwitz. His father answers, “They’re not people at all Bruno.” (p. 53) Discuss the horror of this attitude. How does his father’s statement make Bruno more curious about Out-With?
In his innocence, Bruno is puzzled and quite empathetic when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas.
The attitude of making any group of people non-people allows the acceptance of mistreatment of them.
His father's response makes Bruno more curious about them because of the contradiction of considering any group of people as not being people.
5. Explain what Bruno’s mother means when she says, “We don’t have the luxury of thinking.” (p. 13) Identify scenes from the novel that Bruno’s mother isn’t happy about their life at Out-With. Debate whether she is unhappy being away from Berlin, or whether she is angry about her husband’s position. How does Bruno’s grandmother react to her son’s military role?
In order to co-exist with those living in a military dictatorship one has to do as told without questions. Thinking implies the ability to question which is not allowable.
I think Bruno's mother accepts the military role of her husband and enjoys the higher status that his promotion has given him.
I love that Bruno's grandmother rejects her son's military role and is able to see it for what it is rather than becoming proud of his leadership role.
I thought that the use of capital letters for phrases was interesting. It reminded me of Winnie the Pooh books.
Thursday, November 15, 2007
BSP
Hi, I haven't finished the book yet. Hopefully tomorrow, so I'll wait to check out the questions. So, far, I love the way the author puts in subtle hints, like the waiter/Doc washed his hands & scrubbed under his fingernails. I have been totally immersed in Bruno's character. I feel like I have been taking the journey with him, wondering what the heck is going on, not wanting to let in all at once that something bad is happening. Yesterday was kind of serendipity. I was able to read for a short while at work while burning discs. I came home, & a man that survived the holocaust & is a furniture repairer part time now, was in my home. I listened very carefully to the sound of his accent. Then, later that night, I listened to the Oprah show that I taped. On the show, was a man who was in the concentration camp, age 14, from Poland,who met a Jewish girl who pretended to be a christian, who's family emigrated from Poland & lived on a farm nearby. She was on the outside of the fence. She threw an apple over the top of the fence & also brought him bread daily for maybe 7 months. He told her 1 day not to come tomorrow, because he was being transferred to another camp. She left with tears. He walked away with tears. The Russians saved him. They liberated the camp. He was scheduled to die in 2 hours. The thing was his mother said to him that she was sending him an angel & in 2 days, he had met her. About 15 years later, in New York, USA, they were fixed up. She asked what he did during the war. He responded that he was in the camps. She said that she gave a boy apples. He asked her if the boy was tall & did he say he was going away. She said yes. He proposed to her on the spot & they have been married ever since. I cried watching it. I remember seeing them 11 years ago on the show. Cool.
Wednesday, November 14, 2007
BSP - discussion
I finished this book in almost one sitting and I have to admit it was very well written but I dont agree with it being a 'Fable'. The subject matter is very sad for a child, but young adult(13 onwards) makes more sense for me. Also, I think it was well done as far as perspective of a young boy goes.
1. The relationship between both siblings Bruno and Gretel seems very real and stereotypical of kids their age. in my mind, Bruno does not seem too young for 9years. Infact, if we see the timeframe of this book, it is set almost 70 years ago and times have changed. Kids are alot smarter now then they were even 30 years ago. They know aboout varied subjects, parents discuss more with them and they have the world at their fingertips thru the internet and TV. Keeping that in mind, Bruno may not be a typical 9 year old today but he must have been typical of the times. He cant pronunce certain words 'Fury' and 'Outwith' but it could be because they were not part of his everyday vocabulary. Of course, Gretel was 12, going on 13 and being a girl must have made them feel more than the 3 years apart.
2. There are many cases in India which I have seen when a man is a successful politician(Indian politics are very Dirty) and he tries to keeep his daughter out of even school politics. When I read the question about Gretel being the right age for the League of Young Girls, I wonder if her father didnt encourage her because at the back of his mind, noone else from his family should join becaus ehe knew what the internal problems may have been. Or he knew how Hard it would make you to join the league. Also there could be the practical point of being in Aushwitz that she couldnt join it. There was no one else around.
3. I think children can be perseptive, like if someone is genuinely a warm and nice person, even infants go to them willingly. Similiarly, there must have Obviously not been too many good vibes in this home what with Maria and Pavel being the domestic help. How could they have even been smiling at the children when they knew what was happeneing in the backyard. Lt. Kotler didnt even try to be nice to Bruno so there is no surprise why he made Out With seem like an unsafe place. His violent nature even oozed from his conversations with Bruno whcih probably made him feel unsafe. (Pg 76 when he tells Pavel to go to get a tyre for Bruno he says, "And afterwards, when you return to the kitchen, make sure you wash your hands before touching any food, you filthy --'.) To use such words and tone which Bruno had not heard from anyone made Bruno feel unsafe. Also he felt protective of his sister, although he found her to be a Hopeless Case, when she would flirt with Lt. Kotler. Bruno knew Pavel was a doctor but had to be a cook and waiter and he also somehow realised these were things, he couldnt discuss with his parents. All in All it would have made any child feel unsafe and cold.
1. The relationship between both siblings Bruno and Gretel seems very real and stereotypical of kids their age. in my mind, Bruno does not seem too young for 9years. Infact, if we see the timeframe of this book, it is set almost 70 years ago and times have changed. Kids are alot smarter now then they were even 30 years ago. They know aboout varied subjects, parents discuss more with them and they have the world at their fingertips thru the internet and TV. Keeping that in mind, Bruno may not be a typical 9 year old today but he must have been typical of the times. He cant pronunce certain words 'Fury' and 'Outwith' but it could be because they were not part of his everyday vocabulary. Of course, Gretel was 12, going on 13 and being a girl must have made them feel more than the 3 years apart.
2. There are many cases in India which I have seen when a man is a successful politician(Indian politics are very Dirty) and he tries to keeep his daughter out of even school politics. When I read the question about Gretel being the right age for the League of Young Girls, I wonder if her father didnt encourage her because at the back of his mind, noone else from his family should join becaus ehe knew what the internal problems may have been. Or he knew how Hard it would make you to join the league. Also there could be the practical point of being in Aushwitz that she couldnt join it. There was no one else around.
3. I think children can be perseptive, like if someone is genuinely a warm and nice person, even infants go to them willingly. Similiarly, there must have Obviously not been too many good vibes in this home what with Maria and Pavel being the domestic help. How could they have even been smiling at the children when they knew what was happeneing in the backyard. Lt. Kotler didnt even try to be nice to Bruno so there is no surprise why he made Out With seem like an unsafe place. His violent nature even oozed from his conversations with Bruno whcih probably made him feel unsafe. (Pg 76 when he tells Pavel to go to get a tyre for Bruno he says, "And afterwards, when you return to the kitchen, make sure you wash your hands before touching any food, you filthy --'.) To use such words and tone which Bruno had not heard from anyone made Bruno feel unsafe. Also he felt protective of his sister, although he found her to be a Hopeless Case, when she would flirt with Lt. Kotler. Bruno knew Pavel was a doctor but had to be a cook and waiter and he also somehow realised these were things, he couldnt discuss with his parents. All in All it would have made any child feel unsafe and cold.
Saturday, November 10, 2007
Out with...Fury...fable
Tricia questioned the validity of a nine year old being as naive as Bruno.
I could not get the book, so I listened to it on CD. There was an interview with Boyne at the end. Bruno's naivety was a conscious decisions to make the story work as a fable, as was the use of "out with" and "Fury" in place of Auschwitz and Fuhrer. Neither of those words are ever mentioned in the book. He said that by calling it a fable and not using those words it could be any of the camps, or any situation of that kind in any era. He is aware that it was obvious to people who come to this book with a fore knowledge of the era, who and where these words referred to. I must admit that based on my English class definition of fable, he uses the word loosely.
Jo
I could not get the book, so I listened to it on CD. There was an interview with Boyne at the end. Bruno's naivety was a conscious decisions to make the story work as a fable, as was the use of "out with" and "Fury" in place of Auschwitz and Fuhrer. Neither of those words are ever mentioned in the book. He said that by calling it a fable and not using those words it could be any of the camps, or any situation of that kind in any era. He is aware that it was obvious to people who come to this book with a fore knowledge of the era, who and where these words referred to. I must admit that based on my English class definition of fable, he uses the word loosely.
Jo
First four questions
1.The relationship between Bruno and Gretel was consistent with that between most preteens and teenagers and their younger siblings. Gretel felt more mature and better about herself when she could put Bruno down for being "stupid" because he was "only nine." She was that between age, not quite a child, but not yet a young adult. A very difficult time. Bruno's defense was typical. Classifying her as an "hopeless case" gave him a shield against her barbs. I believe the one dimensional aspect of the children is intentional. We don't need them fully fleshed out. It is only their part in the "fable" that is relevant. (B're rabbit was one dimensional also... grin) That is why our knowledge of them is limited.
2. I believe Gretel is not in the League of young Girls because of her father's position. There is a lot of opportunity for over hearing sensitive conversations that a child might innocently repeat to her father's disadvantage.
3.Bruno has many reasons to feel a chill in the house at "out with." There are many underlying currents in the house. His mother does not approve of her husband dragging his family, especially the children, along in the interest of his ambitions. The view of the camp and the people outside his window, even though he dose not understand it. The whole place is steeped in bad vibrations. Lt.Kotler's angst, Pavel's fall from doctor to kitchen help and waiter. All of it is just below the surface, just beyond Bruno's grasp.
4.Bruno stared at the people in the striped pajamas because he was confused. He did not understand, but he was questioning their differences or lack of them, as the story goes on. He is very naive and that curiosity and and naivety foreshadows the behavior that precipitates his fate.
Jo
Answering the questions
Caboose said:
1. In the beginning Bruno looked at his sister and her friends as an annoyance. Children were trained to not speak, just be like a mannequin by men in uniform, which would create a boy with basic facts his father required to maintain total control.
2. Maria spoke about Bruno’s father as being kind to her, in my opinion he was a coward without a conscious, one of the most evil of mankind. He did not want Gretel in the League of Young Girls, for fear she might overhear something his mother talked about and repeat it at a Youth meeting.
3. What is it about the house at Out-With that makes Bruno feel “cold and unsafe”? A child of nine will have a lasting memory of the atmosphere of fear, hate apathy, crimes and punishment for the remainder of his life.
4. Describe Bruno's reaction when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas. Bruno asks his father about the people outside their house at Auschwitz. His father answers, “They’re not people at all Bruno.” Horror is one of the words I would use towards a society that would tolerate an evil empire to multiply into a killing field. Looking at the world today also makes me wonder about what our society is finding allowable and ask the question what parents are telling today youth about our participation in Iraq.
5. Explain what Bruno’s mother means when she says, “We don’t have the luxury of thinking.” Perhaps here is an answer for today society. We are a nation so busy with feeding our children, keeping our homes from the mortgage lenders and accepting what the government is broadcasting. War is evil and hate creates hatred.
Identify scenes from the novel that Bruno’s mother isn’t happy about their new life at Out-With. Debate whether she is unhappy being away from Berlin, or whether she is angry about her husband’s position. How does Bruno’s grandmother react to her son’s military role?
Bruno’s mother must have been angry about leaving her home in Berlin. Moving to a forbidden place like Auschwitz with her children in toe. Knowing her husbands thoughts of no choice in the matter must have made her furious, fearful and ashamed for her family. Once again I think we must recognize woman’s thoughts and feeling during WW11. Men had total control over women whose thoughts were not validated by men in any way shape of form. Fear was the objective of Bruno’s father when he used himself as a pawn to his wife.
1. In the beginning Bruno looked at his sister and her friends as an annoyance. Children were trained to not speak, just be like a mannequin by men in uniform, which would create a boy with basic facts his father required to maintain total control.
2. Maria spoke about Bruno’s father as being kind to her, in my opinion he was a coward without a conscious, one of the most evil of mankind. He did not want Gretel in the League of Young Girls, for fear she might overhear something his mother talked about and repeat it at a Youth meeting.
3. What is it about the house at Out-With that makes Bruno feel “cold and unsafe”? A child of nine will have a lasting memory of the atmosphere of fear, hate apathy, crimes and punishment for the remainder of his life.
4. Describe Bruno's reaction when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas. Bruno asks his father about the people outside their house at Auschwitz. His father answers, “They’re not people at all Bruno.” Horror is one of the words I would use towards a society that would tolerate an evil empire to multiply into a killing field. Looking at the world today also makes me wonder about what our society is finding allowable and ask the question what parents are telling today youth about our participation in Iraq.
5. Explain what Bruno’s mother means when she says, “We don’t have the luxury of thinking.” Perhaps here is an answer for today society. We are a nation so busy with feeding our children, keeping our homes from the mortgage lenders and accepting what the government is broadcasting. War is evil and hate creates hatred.
Identify scenes from the novel that Bruno’s mother isn’t happy about their new life at Out-With. Debate whether she is unhappy being away from Berlin, or whether she is angry about her husband’s position. How does Bruno’s grandmother react to her son’s military role?
Bruno’s mother must have been angry about leaving her home in Berlin. Moving to a forbidden place like Auschwitz with her children in toe. Knowing her husbands thoughts of no choice in the matter must have made her furious, fearful and ashamed for her family. Once again I think we must recognize woman’s thoughts and feeling during WW11. Men had total control over women whose thoughts were not validated by men in any way shape of form. Fear was the objective of Bruno’s father when he used himself as a pawn to his wife.
What I Think So Far
I read up through Chapter 10 and then stopped so that the second half of the book wouldn't color my view of the first half. Here are a few of my thoughts on some of Bonnie's discussion questions:
1. I guess, as the mother of an eight-and-a-half-year-old boy, I didn't think that Bruno seemed younger than nine. He is the embodiment of innocence in the tale though. I haven't quite decided what Gretel embodies - maybe apathy or self-centeredness? They certainly serve as contrasts to one another.
2. Because this is a fable, rather than an accurate yet fictional depiction of this time and place in history, it would not be appropriate, in my opinion, for Gretel to be involved in the politics of the situation.
4. Bruno's father's statement that "they’re not people at all" is a very powerful summary of the underlying message of the book. Two other scenes from the book (so far) expand that idea well: The situation with Pavel helping Bruno after he gets hurt on the tire swing (pp. 77-85), and the discussion Bruno has with Herr Liszt about their contrasting views on the value of books (pp. 97-98).
5. I love the character of Bruno's grandmother! She's the voice of conscience, of knowing what is right and what is wrong - but no one is listening. Instead, they are more concerned with power and prestige.
1. I guess, as the mother of an eight-and-a-half-year-old boy, I didn't think that Bruno seemed younger than nine. He is the embodiment of innocence in the tale though. I haven't quite decided what Gretel embodies - maybe apathy or self-centeredness? They certainly serve as contrasts to one another.
2. Because this is a fable, rather than an accurate yet fictional depiction of this time and place in history, it would not be appropriate, in my opinion, for Gretel to be involved in the politics of the situation.
4. Bruno's father's statement that "they’re not people at all" is a very powerful summary of the underlying message of the book. Two other scenes from the book (so far) expand that idea well: The situation with Pavel helping Bruno after he gets hurt on the tire swing (pp. 77-85), and the discussion Bruno has with Herr Liszt about their contrasting views on the value of books (pp. 97-98).
5. I love the character of Bruno's grandmother! She's the voice of conscience, of knowing what is right and what is wrong - but no one is listening. Instead, they are more concerned with power and prestige.
Friday, November 9, 2007
BSP - Initial Thoughts
I just finished reading BSP. I started it last night, read very late, then finished this afternoon. I'm not quite ready to answer the questions yet, but need to share a few thoughts. I had a very difficult time with the use of "Fury" and "Out-With." I understand why the author might have wanted to use these terms, but I was bothered by them. Bruno seemed much less believable to me because of his constant use of these words. I can see a 5 or 6 year old child making these kind of pronunciation mistakes, but not a 9-year old boy, and certainly not a 10-year old boy who had been hearing the words for more than a year. Why was Bruno still making these mistakes more than one year later?
There is one other point I need to make. I was bothered by the words "a fable" underneath the title on the inside title page. I just can't see the fable, the allegory, the metaphor, or whatever you want to call it, because the Holocaust was real. Eve Bunting's book, Terrible Things: An Allegory of the Holocaust, works for me, because she uses animals to convey the message that everyone has a responsibility to speak out against injustice, or there will be no one left to speak. In BSP, there was little that felt like metaphor. The people were real, that place was real, the evil was real. Perhaps Bruno's naiveté could serve as a metaphor for the blindness of the German people, but a fable should have a moral, and I didn't see the moral here.
Okay, I need some more time to digest and reflect on what I've read. I'll be back. I'm looking forward to the discussion.
There is one other point I need to make. I was bothered by the words "a fable" underneath the title on the inside title page. I just can't see the fable, the allegory, the metaphor, or whatever you want to call it, because the Holocaust was real. Eve Bunting's book, Terrible Things: An Allegory of the Holocaust, works for me, because she uses animals to convey the message that everyone has a responsibility to speak out against injustice, or there will be no one left to speak. In BSP, there was little that felt like metaphor. The people were real, that place was real, the evil was real. Perhaps Bruno's naiveté could serve as a metaphor for the blindness of the German people, but a fable should have a moral, and I didn't see the moral here.
Okay, I need some more time to digest and reflect on what I've read. I'll be back. I'm looking forward to the discussion.
Thursday, November 8, 2007
BSP ~ DQ
The Boy in the Striped Pajamas by John Boyne is a cautionary tale about two boys, one the son of a commandant in Hitler’s army and the other a Jew, who come face-to-face at a barbed wire fence that separates, and eventually intertwines their lives. Set during the Holocaust, Bruno is only nine-years-old when his father, a commandant in Hitler’s army, is transferred from Berlin to Auschwitz. The house at “Out-With,” as Bruno calls it, is small, dark, and strange. He spends long days gazing out the window of his new bedroom, where he notices people dressed in striped pajamas and rows of barracks surrounded by a barbed wire fence. Bored and lonely, and not really understanding the circumstance of his new existence, Bruno sets out to explore the area and discovers Shmuel, a very thin Jewish boy who lives on the other side of the fence. An unlikely friendship develops between the two boys, but when Bruno learns that his mother plans to take her children back to Berlin, he makes a last effort to explore the forbidden territory where the boy in the striped pajamas lives.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
1. Discuss the relationship between Bruno and Gretel. Why does Bruno seem younger than nine? In a traditional fable, characters are usually one-sided. How might Bruno and Gretel be considered one-dimensional?
2. At age 12, Gretel is the proper age for membership in the League of Young Girls, a branch of Hitler’s Youth Organization. Why do you think she is not a member, especially since her father is a high-ranking officer in Hitler's army?
3. What is it about the house at Out-With that makes Bruno feel “cold and unsafe”? How is this feeling perpetuated as he encounters people like Pavel, Maria, Lt. Kotler, and Shmuel?
4. Describe Bruno's reaction when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas. Bruno asks his father about the people outside their house at Auschwitz. His father answers, “They’re not people at all Bruno.” (p. 53) Discuss the horror of this attitude. How does his father’s statement make Bruno more curious about Out-With?
5. Explain what Bruno’s mother means when she says, “We don’t have the luxury of thinking.” (p. 13) Identify scenes from the novel that Bruno’s mother isn’t happy about their life at Out-With. Debate whether she is unhappy being away from Berlin, or whether she is angry about her husband’s position. How does Bruno’s grandmother react to her son’s military role?
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
1. Discuss the relationship between Bruno and Gretel. Why does Bruno seem younger than nine? In a traditional fable, characters are usually one-sided. How might Bruno and Gretel be considered one-dimensional?
2. At age 12, Gretel is the proper age for membership in the League of Young Girls, a branch of Hitler’s Youth Organization. Why do you think she is not a member, especially since her father is a high-ranking officer in Hitler's army?
3. What is it about the house at Out-With that makes Bruno feel “cold and unsafe”? How is this feeling perpetuated as he encounters people like Pavel, Maria, Lt. Kotler, and Shmuel?
4. Describe Bruno's reaction when he first sees the people in the striped pajamas. Bruno asks his father about the people outside their house at Auschwitz. His father answers, “They’re not people at all Bruno.” (p. 53) Discuss the horror of this attitude. How does his father’s statement make Bruno more curious about Out-With?
5. Explain what Bruno’s mother means when she says, “We don’t have the luxury of thinking.” (p. 13) Identify scenes from the novel that Bruno’s mother isn’t happy about their life at Out-With. Debate whether she is unhappy being away from Berlin, or whether she is angry about her husband’s position. How does Bruno’s grandmother react to her son’s military role?
Monday, November 5, 2007
Life
My mother-in-law passed away last Friday. She had been in hospital for 4 days after a massive stroke, and she never regained consciousness after that. Her death was peaceful, and her family was with her when she died. She was 92, and active, bright and reasonably independent til her last day. Her death at this age wasn't a complete shock ofcourse, but now that she's gone, I feel that the centre figure of my husband's family is gone. We'll need time to adjust to that new phase in our lives.
We take comfort in the many sweet and moving reactions of family and friends.
For distraction I read Harry Potter. JK Rowling's masterpiece is the perfect way to get your mind of things, as many of you already know. I'm in book 3 now, The Prisoner of Azkaban. And I love it!!!!!
We take comfort in the many sweet and moving reactions of family and friends.
For distraction I read Harry Potter. JK Rowling's masterpiece is the perfect way to get your mind of things, as many of you already know. I'm in book 3 now, The Prisoner of Azkaban. And I love it!!!!!
Saturday, November 3, 2007
Book suggestions for 2008
Margreet suggested some Dutch authors we may want to consider. I have looked up these authors and found some of their books in English. Click on each link for a look at each book:
Authors ~ women
Renate Dorrestein
Heart of Stone
Unnatural Mothers
Without Mercy
Hella Haasse
In a Dark Wood Wandering : A Novel of the Middle Ages
Scarlet City : A Novel of Sixteenth-Century Italy
Threshold of Fire : A Novel of Fifth Century Rome
Forever a Stranger and Other Stories (stories)
A Stranger in the Hague : The Letters of Queen Sophie of the Netherlands to Lady Malet, 1842-1877 (nonfiction)
Anna Enquist
The Injury
The Fire Was Here (poetry)
The Masterpiece
The Secret
The Ice Carriers
Authors ~ men
Maarten 't Hart
Sundial
Arthur Japin
Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi
In Lucia's Eyes
Adriaan van Dis
My Father's War
Arnon Grunberg
Phantom Pain
Blue Mondays
Silent Extras
Obviously, we won't be limited to books by Dutch authors, but see if there's one on the list that interests you ... AND ... suggest other books for us to consider reading in 2008. Margreet, if you have a favorite among these, please recommend it. And now, seemingly way too soon, it is time for suggestions, which can also come from our previous lists.
Renate Dorrestein
Heart of Stone
Unnatural Mothers
Without Mercy
Hella Haasse
In a Dark Wood Wandering : A Novel of the Middle Ages
Scarlet City : A Novel of Sixteenth-Century Italy
Threshold of Fire : A Novel of Fifth Century Rome
Forever a Stranger and Other Stories (stories)
A Stranger in the Hague : The Letters of Queen Sophie of the Netherlands to Lady Malet, 1842-1877 (nonfiction)
Anna Enquist
The Injury
The Fire Was Here (poetry)
The Masterpiece
The Secret
The Ice Carriers
Maarten 't Hart
Sundial
Arthur Japin
Two Hearts of Kwasi Boachi
In Lucia's Eyes
Adriaan van Dis
My Father's War
Arnon Grunberg
Phantom Pain
Blue Mondays
Silent Extras
Obviously, we won't be limited to books by Dutch authors, but see if there's one on the list that interests you ... AND ... suggest other books for us to consider reading in 2008. Margreet, if you have a favorite among these, please recommend it. And now, seemingly way too soon, it is time for suggestions, which can also come from our previous lists.
Friday, November 2, 2007
Started BSP
I have about the first 25% of BSP read. I am also reading "The Book Thief." They both take place in Germany in the same time period. I must say it is an upsetting time. They are both classified as young adult books and are very good reads. I'm wondering why I didn't have books like this when I was a "young adult" a very long time ago. I remember mostly romances and classics being available in our local neighborhood library. I have read a lot of good young adult books in the last few years.
Jo
Hello From Teddy
Hi All! I've been very busy with life and am just getting back to some real reading. I just created a new blog with a couple book reviews, so come check it out and let me know what you think. I'm very new at this blogging thing. LOL! Here's the link: http://teddyrose.blogspot.com/
I hope you are all well and enjoying lots of good books!
Teddy
I hope you are all well and enjoying lots of good books!
Teddy
Answer for Shirley
Yes, Cold Comfort Farm has been around for a long time, so it has had other covers. That book doesn't come until DECEMBER, though, and our next book is The Boy in Striped Pajamas for NOVEMBER.
The vote for Cold Comfort Farm was 8 votes (44%):
The vote for Cold Comfort Farm was 8 votes (44%):
No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency 5 (27%)
Night Journal 1 (5%)
Gilded Chamber 1 (5%)
Cold Comfort Farm 8 (44%)
Animal, Vegetable, Miracle 3 (16%)
Total votes: 18
Poll closed
Laura and Jake; New Book
I also was disappointed in Laura for having any positive feelings for Jake. She seemed like such a good mother and very caring to her father and Arthur that risking her relationship with Arthur and her children over someone with Jake's track record seemed very stupid. She did seem to avoid him at first so maybe Jake is just too irresistable.
"Love" can sure be stupid. Within the last couple of years there have been two cases in which women (mothers even) fell in love with inmates (one was a volunteer who had established a dog training program--they wound up in Chattanooga of all places--and the other was a corrections officer who had been fired for becoming too close to a prisoner) and helped their love escape from prisons right here in Kansas. Being in love and blind to some imperfections is one thing, but allowing the emotion of "love" to commit criminal acts or even the risk of losing someone who has been a good husband sure seems stupid to me.
I checked our library's web side to see if Cold Comfort Farm is available. It is, but has a different book cover. Does anyone know if the editions are different?
"Love" can sure be stupid. Within the last couple of years there have been two cases in which women (mothers even) fell in love with inmates (one was a volunteer who had established a dog training program--they wound up in Chattanooga of all places--and the other was a corrections officer who had been fired for becoming too close to a prisoner) and helped their love escape from prisons right here in Kansas. Being in love and blind to some imperfections is one thing, but allowing the emotion of "love" to commit criminal acts or even the risk of losing someone who has been a good husband sure seems stupid to me.
I checked our library's web side to see if Cold Comfort Farm is available. It is, but has a different book cover. Does anyone know if the editions are different?
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